The Truth about AI and Admission-- Sal Khan, Khan Academy

To open season 2 of The Truth about College Admission, Brennan Barnard and Rick Clark are joined by Sal Khan, the founder of Khan Academy, to discuss the current state of how AI is impacting the college admissions process, how currently it is being implemented in admissions reading rooms, how it can be effectively used to improve essays, and what the future might hold with better trained AI.

Links:
https://www.khanacademy.org/khan-labs

 https://www.truthaboutcollegeadmission.com/

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/aug/27/chatgpt-ai-disadvantaged-college-applicants-affirmative-action

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/01/business/college-admissions-essay-ai-chatbots.html

Georgia Tech's Statement on AI

Hosts: Rick Clark, Brennan Barnard
Guest: Sal Khan
Production: Jack Purdy

Grown and Flown Admission- Free Trial Offer

Transcript

Brennan: Today we are joined by Sal Khan Founder and C.E.O of Khan Academy. Sal is also the founder of Khan lab school,  A K-twelve mastery base school in California, where I also happen to work. And he is also the founder of schoolhouse.world, a free peer to peer tutoring platform and of Khan world school and the author of the one world schoolhouse. Welcome Sal.
Rick: I think the last time we were together was out in a San <unk> so um glad to see you're doing well like wise.
participantOne:(39210-39910):0.88: Like wise.
participantTwo:(40170-49110):0.6: Um I wanted to start off you know obviously talking here about a I'd um what I'm finding is that a lot of friends and colleagues.
participantOne:(49110-49530):0.99: Are.
participantTwo:(50090-88850):0.43: Starting to experiment with <unk> BC summer using it on a more regular um basis but um you know I think a lot people have just a cursory concept of how this might impact education that many levels case well <unk> etcetera even self learning and kind of thing um but I had an opportunity to give you you know talking with Adam branch and then also Brandon just kinda catch me up on the commie go work and they I disputed that you guys have developed and so yeah I think that's probably do a lot of folks I want to hear if you could just touch on you know the evolution of that and the the concept in general and the ways you see implications for that assisting students in their education.
participantOne:(90070-97050):0.99: Yeah this is obviously in front of mine for many folks especially including us I mean before I go super deep into what we're working on.
participantOne:(97050-156970):0.57: I think it's important to get everyone on the same page in terms of the words and the taxonomy so when when my most folks are at this point familiar with chat G P T chat G T is an application that's built on top of initially the the version that most people are familiar with is built on top of a large language model a and and the version of it was G T three point five and I'll explain the reason in a little while why that's important about a year ago this was about three months before chat G P T was released open a I reached out to Konica any and and to myself in a few others and they said they were working on their next generation model which is going which is going to be G P T for and they thought that this was going to be the model that really woke people up to what is possible with general AI and they thought that was both exciting for a lot of folks and might be scary for some folks and so they wanted to launch with some social positive use cases with organizations they could trust and that's why they reached out to Konica.
participantOne:(158690-280620):0.51: Once we actually got access to it I was skeptical at first when we actually got access to it and we saw what G P T for as a large language model is capable of doing we're not only can you ask it things and response like people are now used to with chat G P T but you can it's very sterile and that's actually word that AI researchers use for the ability to make an AI model do what you wanted to do so with G P for your we were able to take it on personas like a tutor or teaching assistant or um an academic advisor or a Correa coach and it wasn't just doing it superficially especially the more that we learn to prompt it better and better it was actually doing some pretty thoughtful things which we thought a very good advisor would do or very good tutor would do it had some rough spots around what is literally called hallucinations when a eyes makeup fax or a math errors it's surprising to a lot of folks that these large language models they are computers but they're not as good at math as you would expect a a computer to be but over time we were able to figure out ways to make that better and better and we added layers on top of that and that was happening in November of twenty twenty two I think is the last day of November chat G P T got released chat G P was a chat interface that was billed on top of G P T three point five which had been out for many months and I remember texting Greg Brockman who's the the one of the founder's of opening I'm like Hey what's going on we're under NBA we're, not supposed to talk about what we're doing with y'all and all of sudden you'll have lost something and they said we haven't launched anything this isn't G T for this is just G T three point five but has this chat interface on it and somehow even though it's way in fear to what we are working on it's gotten the whole world excited and I was worried initially cause I thought people were just gonna judge generative AI based on this very imperfect thing that was that has an application that was not made for education so immediately people saw a student could cheat with it it was giving incorrect information it could have it could get into weird conversation.
participantTwo:(228960-229600):1: While.
participantOne:(282050-344810):0.49: The good news is I think that that helps people grapple with the issues with this very imperfect thing and so then we launched in March of twenty twenty three with what what we call con <unk> go think of it commie go is to chat G P T they're both applications as G P T for is two G three point five those are the underlying models um but with <unk> go not only were we able to show that uh you can get something that's far more accurate far stronger at math but also something that has the education use case front and center and and safeguards for students a front and center so <unk> can't won't tell you the answer it won't cheat but it will give you leading questions like a good tutor would uh it records all the sessions it's transparent to teachers there's a second <unk> that monitors them actually notifies teachers if anything shady is is going on huh and and then we have a bunch of activities and the prompting is really trying to get to the pedagogical heart of of of helping kids learn.
participantTwo:(338970-339190):1: So.
participantTwo:(345530-347010):0.98: Yeah I mean it's as you.
participantOne:(347010-349370):0.97: Know of course we've been beta testing.
participantTwo:(349370-351030):0.62: It at <unk> at com out of.
participantOne:(351030-355050):0.77: School and I've just been floored by some of the tools in there.
participantTwo:(355090-357270):0.61: And and you know I think, um.
participantOne:(357270-358030):0.84: <unk> gotten a lot of.
participantTwo:(358030-359010):0.72: Pressed and.
participantOne:(359050-363020):0.99: Um rightfully so and um but I think one of the things.
participantTwo:(363020-364180):1: That has not gotten.
participantOne:(364180-368120):0.95: A lot as much Press is the college admission a.
participantTwo:(368120-369060):1: Navigator and.
participantOne:(369060-371140):1: Financial aid navigator um you know.
participantTwo:(371140-373200):1: I I think um and.
participantOne:(373200-377120):0.72: And the story writing feature that kind of could build off the college.
participantTwo:(377120-380060):0.89: S a a kind of pathway.
participantOne:(380060-383520):0.96: And I wonder if you could just talk about some of your hopes for that piece of things.
participantOne:(384760-429760):0.31: Yeah what's fastening about this technological inflection point is we could call it is every hour we spent thinking about what's possible here we realized that we were being too close minded and and as you mentioned with Connery go launch we didn't just launch something that can act as a tutor or just something that can act as a teaching assistant help with things like lessen planning and rubber creation but we lost all these other novel activities where can emulate a historical figure or a literary character it can act as as you mentioned a as a a a a college advisor of sorts uh it can it can instead of writing a story for you which it won't do but it can write a story with you so it becomes your you're able to rip with it as like a friend a these these are the types of things that and I think we're just.
participantOne:(430860-434920):0.86: We're just scratching the service I think we're already getting very positive feedback from folks.
participantOne:(434920-475490):0.51: It's super valuable to be able to engage with an AI in this way and what we're working on is giving it a sense of memory it so that and we're gonna make that transparent to the user so that it it it doesn't come up with insight that the user can't change or doesn't know about but as the AI as you tell the AI Hey, I want to major engineering or I really like soccer or I wanna make a lot of money or I'm a ninth grade teacher teaching biology, it'll, remember those things and uh and so you don't have to have you know every conversation isn't from scratch so to speak and I hope in the next year or so it can also be more proactive uh with that memory so.
participantOne:(476330-500250):0.69: It can right now can do a tutor in the sense of like Hey, I don't understand what entropy means can you explain a little bit better and then it'll say well what do you what do you know about entropy or what do you know about and and it'll it'll tutor you but I can imagine the world not too far off where it not only does that but I'll also say Hey, last week we chatted and you said you're gonna master this concept it looks like you still haven't done your your con Academy work yet.
participantOne:(500250-505650):0.29: You know what happened last week and you Renner would recognize this is what advisors do at K.
participantOne:(505650-523330):0.43: O S a with their students um I could see commie go starting to provide some of those supports and then even potentially texting students and sending the notifications like Hey, where are you you said you were gonna do your work, huh well why didn't you schedule your college visit or exactly yeah I mean I would I.
participantTwo:(523330-528530):0.95: I sat down with a whole class of a rising seniors last spring and.
participantOne:(528570-595060):0.32: Where as you know in the past I might sit down one on one with them in brainstorm the scalability of this is really amazing sit down at the whole class them bring up the the cross the story feature and they would brainstorm back and forth with the um with Tommy go and and the dialog they were having was just astounding and so I could walk around and I could talk to them and and suggest some prompts and things like that but the back and forth I mean like you said it wasn't writing it for them but it was helping them kinda explore in depth some topics they might write about which is pretty cool and and to take that one step further inspired by that we have activities on <unk> where you can brainstorm your college essay which is one of those things it's one of the hardest things for I think a lot of kids to start doing but then you have thought partner say well that's a little bit cliche you know I don't think colleges wanna hear that or and it but it has knowledge it has knowledge of what makes for good story I think that's powerful and then we also have a activity where once again it won't write the essay for you but it will give you feedback on the S a U right and we think that's a big leveller of the playing field because so many kids just don't know no what no one's there to tell them what makes for great essay yeah?
participantTwo:(534410-535130):0.98: Right because I could.
participantTwo:(536610-537230):1: And have.
participantTwo:(595100-598280):0.62: Hundred percent so last Utah David.
participantTwo:(598320-648620):0.28: Ah, sorta texted me and he's far that big online master's computer science and how he worked with Jill Watson project, you know, a early on with the IBM that kinda thing and you know he was really instructive to me in thinking all right how can we embrace a I'd how can we help students think through how this may be a value to them iterating like you just said brainstorming I think the commie <unk> school course goes a step further along because to your point it's really walking alongside you and there's some accountability pieces debt I mean deadline reminders I love you know all of that, but I mean we're like ten minutes into this conversation with three people who have great familiarity here but I can imagine there's some people out there listening they're already like getting kind of nervous I mean they're fitting in there.
participantTwo:(648620-682840):0.36: Steven they're worried about what does this mean for Steve's what does this mean to your point for integrity or you know whatever my job whatever it might be what you what's your response been I'm sure you here this a good bit from folks who are saying the push back the the question marks the red flags you know how do you tell people to think about this to sit back take a pause and put this in perspective as to in my opinion I think what you're articulating to a real opportunity here for students to actually embrace this and and move forward in positive direction.
participantOne:(684060-708300):0.55: Yeah one thing that I'm encouraging myself to do and others is to first look at the world before generative AI and you quickly realize that was it had some real issues with it a general a I is not the first time that these issues you know issues of integrity are showing up and say college admissions um and and you know I talked to two of your colleagues Rick not Georgia tech but at other similar universities and.
participantOne:(709130-731470):0.25: I I was meeting with them about something else and but I said Hey, what are y'all doing you know, this coming academic year this is gonna be the first G P T U G two and three I suspect many students are using that already to write their essays in previous years but um this is the first year that it's gone mainstream what are y'all doing and both of these uh these universe I'm curious uh what you think about this wreck but both of them said you know what.
participantOne:(732500-800350):0.53: In some ways we're happy because we've always known that there was huge an equity in access to support to help write an essay some kids are doing it completely on their own without any help from anyone and they have no institutional knowledge of what even make a great essay and other kids are in that gray area that that gets to varsity Blues where there there's a ten thousand dollar consultant who's quote helping them and you know an ethical consultant will just be a second set of eyes or help brainstorm but we know someone's paying ten thousand dollars it can quickly get into some pretty heavy surgery if not further a on a on a on an essay and I think yourself and your peers and director of admissions have known about this and so the at least the director admissions I was talking to said you know because of that you just appreciate general <unk> AI we always made our essays we made shorter less about what you about your pros and your ability to write but more about like just describing things that you're doing in the real world and obviously it's a whole other issue if you're lying about.
participantOne:(801430-820850):0.66: Some volunteer work you're doing or you're lying about some product you've been working on but that's what the writing is it's just to communicate something that you are doing or you care about and so they're like yeah someone uses chat J T to help them now I I just kinda levels the playing field I mean before I talk more about where I think the opportunities are but I'm curious Rick what do you think about that.
participantTwo:(821050-827890):0.41: You know a hundred percent I mean in fact, uh, I just we show but I just didn't.
participantTwo:(828250-845680):0.32: Ah, um, and then another one come out with this week with new York times because we Jordan tech put out a policy, but actually not policy guidance like a I'd how should students consider the opportunity to embrace this in their admission process.
participantTwo:(845680-854380):0.45: Be at the college searches specifically how they might go about writing for colleges and really it seems at this point we're one of the very two schools that's put stuff out there.
participantTwo:(854380-910550):0.5: Publicly um and it's exactly like what you said this concept of I'm not gonna say it's leveling the Plainfield 'cause that's not accurate but I do think there's some democratization of access that and you know is new right and is a value and exactly like you just said it is giving to to prior don't have another voice to just reflect back to them something that's you know a gonna move them along you know this idea just getting started I mean that's where I really think you know these kids as you know being part of school community they stress so much about this writing and I call it the paralysis of the blinking cursor you know it's just help me get something so I can respond go um we all need that times and I feel like this is where there's again a real um inflection points you know for for everyone now it's free it's open access and that is of keys business.
participantTwo:(911350-913130):0.99: And I was actually I was actually.
participantOne:(913130-917390):0.54: A I did an interview with Matt Lopez at a the V P at asu the other day and.
participantTwo:(917390-919290):0.99: And he was saying you know they're encouraging.
participantOne:(919290-926230):0.64: People to lean in like they're they're they're telling applicant they're telling other people you know like use this tool by all means.
participantTwo:(926390-927010):1: Huh.
participantOne:(927050-931810):0.39: So so I think that's it sounds like y'all are line I know that is for that.
participantOne:(932650-978070):0.44: That's to address the the the elephant the room like people are gonna use this or not it's and I think people will take comfort knowing that people and who are leading admissions departments are aware of the tools being out there and are trying to craft the processes and ways that they aren't dependent on on whether or not you got a ten thousand dollar writing coach or or using chat GT it's more about the substance of who you are and what you've done and I think where we're going with this I've just I've already said you know tools like <unk> which won't write the S a for you but it can support you it can roofed with you it can brainstorm with you are really powerful and I can imagine a world and not too far future where an admissions director and also we can talk more broadly about essays in general but actually this is true generally where.
participantOne:(979270-1005750):0.62: Right now you're only getting the <unk> because that's all you could get in the past but there's a world where you could get the the AI to report back to head of admissions or to the the the writing professor who assigned the writing assignment and saying Hey, here's a little contact on what we did we worked on this for four hours we talked about the following we went back and forth on the visa statement we argued a little bit about this point and eventually we got there and if you saw that process.
participantOne:(1006190-1009110):1: That's very hard to cheat on if you go to chat.
participantOne:(1009110-1088220):0.41: G P T and just say right me an essay that would sound good for Stanford you know, here's three things that I do extra curricular or sounds great for Georgia tech whatever like if you just copy and paste that in it it then the AI then <unk> or whatever this app would would say Hey, I don't know where this essay came from it was definitely not done as part of a process and I can't even imagine a further world and I know this this will worry people little bit I'm curious what y'all think where you can even have the a I said just having a an essay like you have a prompt and you have an essay you could have a world where you go to the you go to Georgia techs website and you as part of your application is part of the common app or something you interact with the AI the va I is actually asking you questions so what are you interested in what are you what why why do you think that and it's really asking you to go a little bit deeper and then it's able to send a report in a consistent way I know some people are worried about and I'm worried to about by an AI etcetera the reason why I'm I'm bullish on this idea is yes a I can have by us but you can audit it and humans have much more box so when you have the random interviewer you know the local alone that's interviewing you or even the reader I mean y'all aren't perfect you know it depends if you ever had a bad day it's at the end of day you're tired you're reading someone's essays one of thirty thousand forty thousand you're going through.
participantTwo:(1088260-1089160):0.79: Yeah by.
participantOne:(1089160-1091100):0.57: Keeping there too I'm sure what y'all think yeah.
participantTwo:(1091100-1093040):0.75: They I mean they I is immune.
participantOne:(1093040-1103180):0.45: To rainy days right or like post post lunch reading or you know all these situational things that I've always influenced admission emission readers yeah.
participantTwo:(1103220-1149950):0.48: I understand what we're doing this year we're piloting um we fed you know all of our rubric um into in into an AI model and we're gonna run that storing system next to our human readers um so basically well we'll be able to kind of see where there might be gas or discrepancy and I think that while it's not making decisions per se for us uh it would be helpful because you know if there's like a big variance we do this normally in our normally process um prior to it sometimes even big cycle but I think now you'll have real time checks especially on what what you're saying um but I think it'll make you say maybe I need to go back and look at that again I think there's gonna be real value you know found in that as well.
participantOne:(1150730-1151010):1: Well.
participantTwo:(1151010-1152110):1: And I would I would.
participantOne:(1152110-1161090):0.55: Say to sell I mean you know the work we're doing with seminars and you've done a bunch of work on seminars and and we're working with you know relative a I to to to.
participantTwo:(1161130-1162010):0.97: Kind of assess.
participantOne:(1162010-1169150):0.69: How students interact with in within seminars and kinda group dynamics and I can see a world where that kinda thing?
participantTwo:(1169150-1170230):0.57: Is used in a mission.
participantOne:(1170230-1174230):0.84: Where you know if you really wanna know how somebody's gonna be in a classroom?
participantTwo:(1174230-1175390):1: Or in a community.
participantOne:(1175760-1178100):0.84: Um get a bunch of applicants together and.
participantTwo:(1178100-1179260):0.9: Run some may I.
participantOne:(1179300-1181180):0.98: On their conversation and.
participantTwo:(1181180-1182220):0.97: And kinda see how.
participantOne:(1182220-1206500):0.46: People are are participating I love that idea we've been raised roaming ways and hopefully we're this will be out in a year or two Connie go can actually facilitate interactions for multiple parties could essentially run a seminar in in those certain areas and so I but I love that extra you know we were brainstorming this idea a student could interact with an admissions department AI that essentially interviews them but part of that could even be like Hey, at eleven.
participantOne:(1206540-1208020):1: O'clock eastern time.
participantOne:(1208060-1212980):0.9: You're gonna be a cohort of five people to work on this project that gets administered by the AI.
participantOne:(1214030-1236130):0.64: And that it could be an AI review or it could even be some kind of peer review as well which could also be interesting around um around but I love Rick that y'all are already leaning in but it it sounds like you are doing in very responsible way in fact you're using it away as almost a guard rail on human biased to make sure that things aren't falling through the cracks that shouldn't um so that's that's pretty cool.
participantTwo:(1236170-1246280):0.43: Yeah exactly um you were just hitting on this and so you maybe wanna expand or maybe there's something else but um Brandon and I we're on a.
participantOne:(1246320-1247300):0.59: A fast.
participantTwo:(1247300-1264160):0.54: Force committee I don't know what it was called a couple years ago with the common app called revolutionizing the app because um you know it started in nineteen seventy four and the truth is that you know it's very similar to what it was that no it's not on paper you know there's a couple things you can do differently but.
participantTwo:(1265040-1300930):0.51: It's still like tell us who you are where you're from a what do you do outside the class room um you know write an essay for us to turn in I'm just wondering you know we we touched on this here just a second ago maybe some possibilities where a I could do some additional insight is there anything else on your mind there that you would say you know for folks that are listening to and we have a number of them that are admission professionals what might this due to force changes positive change um you know within that those structure of in the process of applying to college that colleges might be thinking about.
participantOne:(1302270-1389380):0.41: <unk> it and this is one of those conversations I think every ten minutes we brainstorm we can think of new things but just as we we could imagine an AI interviewing the student and that that a I could be a common AI or it could be university specific or maybe it's a combination of both that can then surface insights and then the AI could facilitate group discussions or simulations and see how student interact with each other that would be pretty powerful and then if you think about the the classic teacher recommendation that's another source of I think in equality where some folks go to schools that where the teachers know what kind of recommendation you quote need to get in to some of the selective universities and some of them say oh yeah they showed up on time and they have good grades pleasant young woman or young young man and that's not even even though that kid might be more impressive than the other one that's not the type of recommendation that really stands out in admissions so you can even imagine AI interviewing the teachers and really trying to pull out of them you know the teachers who are good at writing these these these these recommendations even for kids they don't know well if the AI is really in everything like so how many hours a week do you spend with like why do you say that why do you think they're the most brilliant so you know you teach an Andover and you really think they're they're one of the top one percent that you've ever seen at Andover like right you know really push they're thinking on it and similarly for the other teachers like tell me more like you know what what what.
participantTwo:(1389480-1390720):0.78: Bill yeah.
participantOne:(1391400-1451160):0.33: Yeah what what's the sense of humor like what's you know things that that a lot of teachers might not realize actually can help admissions department come come up with who would really do well um on on on this campus so I frankly I would love to brainstorm with what the future and it sounds like <unk> you might be on the very cutting edge of this but I I don't think there's any low you all have to find the process the way you have just because it's it's work for you in the past although it you know could be perfect but it sounds like there's there might be openings to whole sales wholesale change here which I think would be really cool 'cause without that you're gonna have the schools and the students and guidance counselors and the commie goes of the world saying okay this is the way the world works we're just gonna try to give more tools and supports to help people navigate that very subjective and complex world yeah Ah, yeah I mean we've often often talked about kind of a portfolio based admission to right and one of the big kind of road locks.
participantTwo:(1451160-1452140):0.95: To that is just kinda.
participantOne:(1452140-1455420):0.51: Scalability like how do you use portfolios and mission.
participantTwo:(1455460-1457200):0.65: And uh I think I as.
participantOne:(1457200-1459240):0.95: The potential to um help.
participantTwo:(1459280-1460020):1: Assess that.
participantOne:(1460020-1516200):0.54: As well right and I would say that just portfolio I I actually I just talked to a team member of my Ah, her son is her daughter is applying to, um, a design school it in on the East coast and she's a senior and she just they just ask for sixteen pieces of work and she's like I don't have sixteen pieces of work and so she's getting she's even debating whether she even applies even and we were talking out loud like that's a bit of a tragedy to like I like portfolio, but then all of sudden say sixteen pieces of work she might have gone to school where they knew that was coming and they could have started developing that their freshman year or in her case she just found out about it like last week and she has to get her application together in a few months the the um if if Jenny I could be used to even help develop some projects on an equal footing I mean the other thing about portfolio and whether it's you're talking a design for folio or whether you're talking about research projects.
participantOne:(1516380-1532280):0.3: We've all seen the kid who seemed you know who just published in nature and you're like was that you or is that your mom or dad like most kids don't have access to like a cancer research center oh your dad is the director of cancer research and whatever okay like.
participantTwo:(1532320-1534280):0.97: Or now some paid summer program.
participantOne:(1534280-1546280):0.51: I mean there's also some programmer programs are popping up all over where you know they do research if you could have a re you know when we interview people at Khan Academy one of the things we do is we give them a perform of tasks to do like.
participantOne:(1547500-1579150):0.56: You know make a video or analyze this or write a question or write some code whatever it might be and if we give the same one to everyone and we give them the same timeframe I think something like that could be interesting I I I don't wanna make the the the college application more could you harder don't think any of us do but we can simplify other things like the college S say the college recommendations which I think are the hardest thing for most kids and then and then maybe add on a few other things but you just go and it's like you play a game for an hour or two and it is what it is.
participantTwo:(1579730-1634310):0.44: No a hundred percent I mean you're also making me think in a different way too because one of the one of the conversation pieces that we had was a lot of these kids you know again from less resource backgrounds they have adults in their life who loves them and say could say so many important banks but logging into a portal writing something it's just not there medium necessarily right unfamiliar but in ability to voice record or video something you know should be tremendously powerful but now what you're saying is almost like two point of that because it is yes do that but we're gonna actually almost like lead you down the road of how you might talk about something that yes you have background on wouldn't have thought to include or you could say it in a different way it's like you're still not taking much of your time and it's still in a medium or platform that's comparable but it's even of more meaning to the school that's getting it on the other side which is super.
participantOne:(1634310-1646800):0.42: Interest no you hundred right when someone asked me for a recommendation I'm like oh I gotta go to open up a dock I gotta write out now but if someone said Hey, I just need to fill talk to an AI for fifteen minutes about me.
participantOne:(1646800-1654420):0.43: I'm like oh yeah sure I'll do that right now like I would immediately happened and and I don't know <unk> if you know Brennan knows this for kids at K O S.
participantOne:(1654420-1691690):0.4: I don't do this for everyone but for for the kids that I do know well and I do think are very deserving of the students are applied to I make videos a because I do it once I me being who I am it's easier for me to make a three minute video then for me to write a a a five paragraph college recommendation a but also I think and I've gotten emails back from folks in admissions at different universities saying that they really appreciate it 'cause it's hard to fake like they can authentically tell that I know the student and that I wouldn't be going to bat for them in this way if I didn't truly believe that they were deserving and so that authenticity I think also helps which which the video medium does.
participantTwo:(1692250-1695090):0.54: Huh well well cell thanks so much I.
participantOne:(1695130-1709830):0.74: Just as we kinda close here any thoughts for we have a lot of parents and and students who listen and any final thoughts for them on kind of how to how to think about this and approach this um as we go into the new year new academic year.
participantTwo:(1697430-1698050):1: Kinda final.
participantOne:(1711230-1720470):0.47: Well well it's funny I mean my general advice regardless of whether we had generally air or not and Brandon you you said this I think is you know there's no right decision there's making the decision right.
participantOne:(1721630-1754590):0.47: It's all about putting one put in for the other not having that analysis paralysis that Rick you were talking about and and people gonna land where they are and if they if they have the right attitude about where they end up there they're gonna thrive and you can go to the fancy university the world but if you if you're going there and you're already depleted or you're going there and you thought that was the end goal as opposed to a means or you're going there and you're not staying positive and opening up and becoming part of community it's gonna be a disaster uh you're you're not gonna end up in a good place and Jenny I it's almost an extension of our own intent and I think.
participantOne:(1755620-1769260):0.49: As long as people are open and honest about how they are using it but then they if they can use it as a as a medium of expression of who they really are it sounds like it could be a a more promising future we're going into not a <unk> one huh.
participantTwo:(1769640-1771660):0.99: Huh huh thanks so much.
participantOne:(1773000-1786820):0.68: Great thanks guys thanks yep what what um I'm writing a book about all this stuff right now could I get a recording of this I'd love to quote some of what we just talked about especially some of what you're doing Rick at Georgia tech I'd love to put that in the book.
participantTwo:(1787430-1793110):0.5: Yeah jacks a are you able to get that to self done yeah he.
participantOne:(1793110-1796070):0.75: Said you have my email I'm Sal <unk> dot org yeah we'll.
participantTwo:(1796070-1805350):0.51: Do it um <unk> with your password it comes out I'll send it to you um 'cause I think they got some when they will <unk> with over apiece was referencing.
participantOne:(1805430-1810250):0.73: Okay sounds good I'll take a look at it thanks guys great goodbye you well thanks I thank you bye bye.
participantTwo:(1814500-1814960):1: All right.